Library votes to keep controversial book
By ALANA LISTOE - Independent Record - 10/22/08
Carole Byrnes, chairwoman of the Lewis and Clark Library Board of Directors, said banning books from library shelves is censorship.
Byrnes, along with the other four board members, voted to retain the book, “The Joy of Gay Sex,” in the library’s collection with unrestricted access at a meeting Tuesday night.
After reading the book Byrnes acknowledged that the pictures and descriptions were graphic, but she viewed it as an instructional, education manual.
The request to remove the book from the library’s circulation came from Helena resident Paul Cohen, who said the book was “pornographic.” He said the library is negligent of providing a “safe place” for children and adolescents when they have access to the material.
The library’s collection review committee and Director Judy Hart reviewed the book and library policies and ultimately recommended keeping the book, saying it is the library’s obligation to provide information to all segments of society.
Dissatisfied with the decision, Cohen appealed to trustees in August and a public hearing was held last month. The board received and reviewed about 200 written submissions on the matter.
Library policy says that no material will be excluded from consideration because of race, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, political or social view of the material, the author or the intended audience. The policy also states that no materials will be removed because of controversy.
Cohen said the policy is in error if it says anything can be put on the shelves for anyone to look at.
He said after the meeting he wasn’t surprised by the decision to retain the book, however said the notion that things, such as books, can’t be judged is “absurd.”
Board member Jesse Franzen said according to policy, library patrons are free to select or reject materials for themselves or their own minor children, but not free to restrict the freedom of others to read or inquire.
“Only parents and guardians, not the library, have the right to guide and direct the reading, listening and viewing choices of their own minor children,” Franzen said the policy states. “I believe the library policies have been followed impeccably with grace and great respect, and again I thank our staff. I vote in approval of our director’s decision.”
Hart said she was pleased with the decision and how the process was open for all participants.
She said board members read and listened to all policies, written and oral testimony and based their decision on policies.
Reporter Alana Listoe: 447-4081 or alana.listoe@helenair.com
Byrnes, along with the other four board members, voted to retain the book, “The Joy of Gay Sex,” in the library’s collection with unrestricted access at a meeting Tuesday night.
After reading the book Byrnes acknowledged that the pictures and descriptions were graphic, but she viewed it as an instructional, education manual.
The request to remove the book from the library’s circulation came from Helena resident Paul Cohen, who said the book was “pornographic.” He said the library is negligent of providing a “safe place” for children and adolescents when they have access to the material.
The library’s collection review committee and Director Judy Hart reviewed the book and library policies and ultimately recommended keeping the book, saying it is the library’s obligation to provide information to all segments of society.
Dissatisfied with the decision, Cohen appealed to trustees in August and a public hearing was held last month. The board received and reviewed about 200 written submissions on the matter.
Library policy says that no material will be excluded from consideration because of race, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, political or social view of the material, the author or the intended audience. The policy also states that no materials will be removed because of controversy.
Cohen said the policy is in error if it says anything can be put on the shelves for anyone to look at.
He said after the meeting he wasn’t surprised by the decision to retain the book, however said the notion that things, such as books, can’t be judged is “absurd.”
Board member Jesse Franzen said according to policy, library patrons are free to select or reject materials for themselves or their own minor children, but not free to restrict the freedom of others to read or inquire.
“Only parents and guardians, not the library, have the right to guide and direct the reading, listening and viewing choices of their own minor children,” Franzen said the policy states. “I believe the library policies have been followed impeccably with grace and great respect, and again I thank our staff. I vote in approval of our director’s decision.”
Hart said she was pleased with the decision and how the process was open for all participants.
She said board members read and listened to all policies, written and oral testimony and based their decision on policies.
Reporter Alana Listoe: 447-4081 or alana.listoe@helenair.com
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Reader Comments:
diazo wrote on Nov 3, 2008 9:54 AM:
" Slewfoot - I had no idea there was a video of this book because it does not interest me, but I'll take your word for it.
My point was that I take responsibility for supervising my kids, period. There's some good stuff in the Bible; there's also graphic sex, bloody violence, incest and genocide. Things that could warp a kid's mind. That book definitely deserves at least an "R" rating and should be kept behind the counter at the library, if at all. "
My point was that I take responsibility for supervising my kids, period. There's some good stuff in the Bible; there's also graphic sex, bloody violence, incest and genocide. Things that could warp a kid's mind. That book definitely deserves at least an "R" rating and should be kept behind the counter at the library, if at all. "
Slewfoot wrote on Nov 1, 2008 2:51 PM:
" Comparing this sleaze book to the bible is insulting to say the least. Wow! Maybe you should try to get the video of this book and let your kiddies see it in living color. "
diazo wrote on Nov 1, 2008 8:54 AM:
" mark1228 - what part of "she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys" do you suppose would go over a kid's head? (Ezekiel 23:19-20)
I feel safer taking my kids to the library than letting them read the Bible unsupervised. "
I feel safer taking my kids to the library than letting them read the Bible unsupervised. "
my2cents wrote on Oct 31, 2008 5:06 PM:
" I think I have forgotten to say that I support the library on this decision. I will still take my child there because no matter what you think reading is the best thing for a child's imagination. We just may have to talk about things she sees (even in the dictionary or encyclopedia). "
mark1228 wrote on Oct 31, 2008 4:15 PM:
" ematt- actually, I got your point, I was just having some fun with you! "
ematt wrote on Oct 31, 2008 12:18 PM:
" mark 1228 -
You have completely misunderstood my post. I should have been specific and instead commented, "...more afraid of having my children encounter Mr. Cohen, who started this entire mess..." "
You have completely misunderstood my post. I should have been specific and instead commented, "...more afraid of having my children encounter Mr. Cohen, who started this entire mess..." "
mark1228 wrote on Oct 31, 2008 11:49 AM:
" ematt- I agree. It scares me to for my kids to run into whoever either purchased or donated this book. Great point!
ethereal- As I recall, I never saw graphic, sexual pictures in the Bible, did you? True, much of what is in the Bible(and many other books for that matter) go over a kids head. Maybe much of the text of the book in question would to, I don't know as I have not read it. But as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. "
ethereal- As I recall, I never saw graphic, sexual pictures in the Bible, did you? True, much of what is in the Bible(and many other books for that matter) go over a kids head. Maybe much of the text of the book in question would to, I don't know as I have not read it. But as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. "
ematt wrote on Oct 31, 2008 10:39 AM:
" Personally, I'm more afraid of having my children encounter the person that started this whole mess than anything they may happen to glance at in the library... "
my2cents wrote on Oct 31, 2008 9:44 AM:
" mark1228 - I totally agree. It has never been harder to be a parent in my opinion. But that's where we need to realize that there will be something you don't want your child to see everywhere (even the store). We as parents need to understand that it's time to be a lot more cautious with our children. It's a scary world out there - luckily we still live in a pretty good town. "
Ethereal wrote on Oct 31, 2008 5:25 AM:
" Yet none of you have any problems with your children reading the Bible... That's twisted. I'm sure it's great to let your children read about how someone was nailed to a cross.
Would a young person put the religious content to it? Of course not, it would simply be gratuitous violence to them.
But you don't care.
That's why our society is so sad. Tolerance, intolerance...either way you'd complain. The more bans placed, the less rights you have. If you want the government to hold your hand while you cross the street, too? (oh wait, jaywalking laws)...crap, I'm all out of material.
Sacrifice any portion of available knowledge and you push society further down than it is now...
And trust me, you people already threw the shovel aside and grabbed the drill. "
Would a young person put the religious content to it? Of course not, it would simply be gratuitous violence to them.
But you don't care.
That's why our society is so sad. Tolerance, intolerance...either way you'd complain. The more bans placed, the less rights you have. If you want the government to hold your hand while you cross the street, too? (oh wait, jaywalking laws)...crap, I'm all out of material.
Sacrifice any portion of available knowledge and you push society further down than it is now...
And trust me, you people already threw the shovel aside and grabbed the drill. "
mark1228 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 5:24 PM:
" my2cents- Fair enough. I agree that parents should handle the censoring of what children see. I do think that it is unfortunate that our city has deteriorated to the point that parents don't think they can leave their kids alone for a while at the library. That should say something about our society right there don't you think? "
my2cents wrote on Oct 30, 2008 2:51 PM:
" mark1228 - I did spend lots of time at the library by myself. Unfortunately our world has changed leaps and bounds since then. It is no longer safe to just let your child be somewhere. My daughter gets to watch shows that I have previously seen or been recommended (I realize I should probably watch these as well) and listens to music that has been chosen in the same way. And I will do the same with what she reads. Even if it's at the library. "
mark1228 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 1:16 PM:
" ematt- I realize it is not practical to vote on every book in the library. My point was since that can't happen, then if you don't like this book in the library, don't support the library next time they ask for a levy.
I'm sorry, but I missed your point with your link. "
I'm sorry, but I missed your point with your link. "
ematt wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:42 PM:
" To save the effort of scrolling down, mark 1228, you post on Oct 22, 2008 8:49pm: "...put this up for a vote on the ballot." and then you point out that you don't believe that we should? So why even post it?
Additionally note here:
http://www.helenair.com/articles/2008/10/30/opinions/readers_alley/colton_081029.txt "
Additionally note here:
http://www.helenair.com/articles/2008/10/30/opinions/readers_alley/colton_081029.txt "
mark1228 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 12:00 PM:
" my2cents- I agree, parents need to take responsiblity for what their kids watch and listen too and read. However, I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, I spent LOTS of time at the library without my parents and I doubt they ever gave it a thought that there would be books like this available to me.
To answer your questions, Yes I do turn off TV shows with homosexuality as well as heterosexuality that is explicit. As for music, if it is explicit either way, my kids are not allowed to listen to it either. How about yours? "
To answer your questions, Yes I do turn off TV shows with homosexuality as well as heterosexuality that is explicit. As for music, if it is explicit either way, my kids are not allowed to listen to it either. How about yours? "
mark1228 wrote on Oct 30, 2008 10:09 AM:
" obviously we can't vote on every library book purchased. My point is that on controversial issues, like the smoking ban was, they should be put up to a vote and the will of the people should be heard. I don't really believe we should vote on this book. I do wonder why it can't be put in a place only accessed by adults though. I also would like to know if this book was purchased by the library or donated. "
my2cents wrote on Oct 30, 2008 9:21 AM:
" So because there is homosexuality on t.v. do you stop your children from watching it? - I'm going to guess no. Because a homosexual person is a musician do you stop your children from listening to music? - again I will guess no. You monitor what they watch and listen to - should and could be the same way when you take them to the library. I was raised in a religious house but luckily my parents were able to raise me to have a mind of my own and still respect other peoples rights and opinions. "
diazo wrote on Oct 29, 2008 8:26 PM:
" mark1228, I'm curious how, logistically, you propose that the citizens of Helena should vote on every book the library acquires? Leaving aside the question of whether it would even be appropriate. "
mark1228 wrote on Oct 29, 2008 9:19 AM:
" Gee Diazo, what did I say? I didn't say the book should not be there, I simply said, lets vote on it and see. I also suggested that if you are not happy with the decisions the library makes, don't support them when they ask for it.
After rzncane made the point about donated vs purchased books, I wondered if anyone knows if this book was donated or purchased by our library? "
After rzncane made the point about donated vs purchased books, I wondered if anyone knows if this book was donated or purchased by our library? "
diazo wrote on Oct 28, 2008 11:24 AM:
" Thanks for shedding some light on the discussion, rzncane. Just please be sure and clear any future donations with mark1228, mama2, olton, madhouse, MTRICH, Shonkin, capital_city and Ding first, who apparently know what all the rest of us should and shouldn't be reading. "
rzncane wrote on Oct 27, 2008 11:51 AM:
" I just wanted to clear something up that the general public may not know about. Public libraries do not purchase the majority of the books that are on their shelves. Most of the books are donated. I am proud to say that I donate books to the library all the time and encourage all of you to do the same if you find their holdings lacking. "
Ethereal wrote on Oct 25, 2008 6:59 AM:
" Hey Ding
Coming Out of Homosexuality
Coming Out Straight
Our Endangered Values
All three of which are anti-gay and carried by L&C Library. Look it up in their catalog. Do your research before you post.
Thanks "
Coming Out of Homosexuality
Coming Out Straight
Our Endangered Values
All three of which are anti-gay and carried by L&C Library. Look it up in their catalog. Do your research before you post.
Thanks "
blackwingbear wrote on Oct 24, 2008 5:34 PM:
" I seem to remember Noah trying to screw one of his sons when he was drunk in a tent, and a crowd of men wanting to sodomize some male angels... Should we ban the Bible now? "
blackwingbear wrote on Oct 24, 2008 5:29 PM:
" RETURN THE BOOK, PAUL. Fred said you didn't learn much from it anyway. "
blackwingbear wrote on Oct 24, 2008 5:27 PM:
" Just because you might not like certain material someone is reading gives you NO right to tell them they may not read it. You are not god and you have no right to judge ANYONE. "
nerorosone_4 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 4:49 PM:
" Out of everyone that commented on this, Colton, you are the most disturbed. Are you seriously insinuating that homosexuals and phedohpiles are in the same classification? It is shallow, narrow minded people like you that make this world "untolerable". It all comes down to this: if you don't like what the book is about, don't read it. Give it up. "
mama2 wrote on Oct 24, 2008 10:18 AM:
" mcq,
What a ridiculous comparison. The book in question apparently shows extremely graphic pictures of homosexual acts, I assure you the Holy Bible does no such thing.
Sex between a man and a woman is acceptable, anything else is not. "
What a ridiculous comparison. The book in question apparently shows extremely graphic pictures of homosexual acts, I assure you the Holy Bible does no such thing.
Sex between a man and a woman is acceptable, anything else is not. "
madhouse wrote on Oct 23, 2008 8:30 PM:
" There are thousands and thousands of books published every year and the library cannot possibly buy every book there is. So they pick and choose what books they want, which in itself is a form of censorship.
I don't think that this is a Republican, Democrat, Right or Left wing issue, it is however an issue of what is appropriate for the viewing of the majority of people who use the library. This book is not one that the majority of the library patrons will check it out so why buy it? Why not buy one that more people would be glad to read? "
I don't think that this is a Republican, Democrat, Right or Left wing issue, it is however an issue of what is appropriate for the viewing of the majority of people who use the library. This book is not one that the majority of the library patrons will check it out so why buy it? Why not buy one that more people would be glad to read? "
naturalblonde196 wrote on Oct 23, 2008 10:10 AM:
" I agree with Mark1228 that we should put these kinds of things to a vote. That's what it for so we the community can have a say in what affects our community. That way just a few people don't have to speak for all of us. "
mcq wrote on Oct 23, 2008 3:09 AM:
" "Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt. There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." (Ezekiel 23:19-20)
If that book gets banned, so should the Bible. "
If that book gets banned, so should the Bible. "
mtbanana wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:49 PM:
" What is particularly offensive to me is the apparent conviction of many people that the "Bilblical moral code" should govern everyone's beliefs. There are many, many, many religions and moral codes in our world, and the Christian perspective is only one - it just happens to be among those with the most fanatical, sycophantic followers. I'm fine with the Bible and Jesus in and of themselves, but I seriously object to the attitude and modus operandi of hard-core evangelists. I've yet to see a loud, preachy Bible-thumper follow the Commandments they're so adamant about. What's the old saying about the speck in my eye and the plank in yours? Oh, but it's so easy for people to hide behind their ignorance to avoid admitting they might not have ALL the answers for everyone.
I'm a straight woman, but I definitely don't see homosexuality as an "abomination". I'm glad our library has decided to protect the rights of the minority against the tyranny of the majority in this case. Although I don't have a practical interest in it, I might even check the book out someday just to see if it's really as "bad" as Mr. Cohen says.
And, there's a very simple answer to the argument about children having unrestricted access to material like this. If you have children who aren't of age to cope with mature subject matter, SUPERVISE THEM. And mind your own beeswax while you're at it. "
I'm a straight woman, but I definitely don't see homosexuality as an "abomination". I'm glad our library has decided to protect the rights of the minority against the tyranny of the majority in this case. Although I don't have a practical interest in it, I might even check the book out someday just to see if it's really as "bad" as Mr. Cohen says.
And, there's a very simple answer to the argument about children having unrestricted access to material like this. If you have children who aren't of age to cope with mature subject matter, SUPERVISE THEM. And mind your own beeswax while you're at it. "
Ding wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:11 PM:
" I'll bet ya money the library would not allow an anti-gay book to sit on their shelves. Their decision is the worst kind of censorship: The kind that insists we think the way other people believe we should. This is political correctness and social engineering at its worst, and I for one will be voting "NO" the next the library wants my money. "
MTRICH wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:00 PM:
" When I can check a playboy, penthouse or hustler out of the Lewis and Clark Library I will believe their BS on censorship. Not that I think the library should actually have those. I don't feel The Joy of Sex OR The Joy of Gay Sex have any place in a public library--that is what ADULT BOOKS STORES ARE FOR. Providing such material to children is a CRIME under Montana and Federal laws...PERIOD! Even if you are a librarian... "
mama2 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:59 PM:
" We are a Christian family and I have kept my children out of the library since I found out this book was there. We used to be frequent patrons. I doubt we will ever be so again. Its very upsetting to think my gradeschooler could happen upon such filth. I am very disappointed in the library's decision. "
mark1228 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:49 PM:
" I have an idea- lets do what we did with the smoking ban and put this up for a vote on the ballot. Let democracy reign and the people decide what is right or wrong and then all live with like the smoking ban.
My other idea since there is no chance of my first idea happening is that if you don't like how the library is spending OUR money, then don't support it next time they ask for more money. "
My other idea since there is no chance of my first idea happening is that if you don't like how the library is spending OUR money, then don't support it next time they ask for more money. "
dmp0503 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:44 PM:
" Thanks to the Lewis and Clark Library for upholding our freedoms. I appreciate your efforts to serve ALL members of the communinty. "
YourBad wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:27 PM:
" Kudos to Mr. Paul Cohen for speaking up on this book. You did not let others censor your right to speak out, although they sure seem to have wanted to. There is a sizeable portion of this community that find it inappropriate to be putting books on the public library shelf, purchased with public funds, that violate a Biblical moral code that leaves no question as to whether homosexuality is an "acceptable" lifestyle. You naysayers can use whatever interpretation you want for YOUR beliefs, but it is plainly written as an "abomination." If you are going to call yourselves Christian, then you have to take the whole book as Gods word, and it specifically cannot be taken away from or added to. You don't get to pick and choose the parts you want to believe. For those who think the Old Testament is outdated, it is the living word and only changed by the New Testament. Calling a pornographic book an instruction manual is ridiculous. If your mother caught you with that book as a teenager, Im sure she would have just dismissed it as educational material. I don't see the library as representing our part of that "community as a whole." The library has effectively engaged in censoring Mr. Cohen's beliefs as to free speech and also his religious beliefs, if he happens to believe as indicated above. Hooray for the open-mindedness thats being celebrated in this blog. "
capital_city wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:22 PM:
" Apparently, someone needs to write a book called 'The Joy of Normal Sex' and get it in the library. Include all the graphic pictures as well. Let's see if that goes over as easily as the gay sex book. "
goldfishcastle wrote on Oct 22, 2008 6:54 PM:
" Our library does have: "The Turner Diaries", but alas, does not have the "Anarchist Cookbook", which I might inter library loan. Since high school I've always had a curiosity to see what is actually in that book.
I'm not Carolyn, but yes, that is censorship if you're suppressing ideas. Our library doesn't collect "p*rn", look at it's policies, but it does collect diverging views on as many issues as possible.
Oh, Colton, the ALA should be considered a "right" wing organization. It fights for the extreme rights of the first amendment, much like the NRA does for the second amendment. Or, we could all reclassify the NRA as an extreme "left" wing organization, but it's brand is pretty well set.
See you all at the library! "
I'm not Carolyn, but yes, that is censorship if you're suppressing ideas. Our library doesn't collect "p*rn", look at it's policies, but it does collect diverging views on as many issues as possible.
Oh, Colton, the ALA should be considered a "right" wing organization. It fights for the extreme rights of the first amendment, much like the NRA does for the second amendment. Or, we could all reclassify the NRA as an extreme "left" wing organization, but it's brand is pretty well set.
See you all at the library! "
Lee451 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:45 PM:
" Carolyn sounds awfully smug and politically correct in her comments that are in the article.
I think it is safe to assume that the library also has copies of "The Turner Diaries" and "The Anarchit Cookbook" as well as "The Joy of Gay Sex" because, if children should be exposed to homosexual sex, then they have the right to be exposed to other ideas as well, right Carolyn? If the library does not have these books then the local citizens should complain, because not carrying those books is nothing more than cencorship, right Carolyn? I knew you would agree. "
I think it is safe to assume that the library also has copies of "The Turner Diaries" and "The Anarchit Cookbook" as well as "The Joy of Gay Sex" because, if children should be exposed to homosexual sex, then they have the right to be exposed to other ideas as well, right Carolyn? If the library does not have these books then the local citizens should complain, because not carrying those books is nothing more than cencorship, right Carolyn? I knew you would agree. "
fetzbecs wrote on Oct 22, 2008 2:38 PM:
" The ALA's Library Bill of Rights was enacted in 1948, so one can hardly call it a "left wing political agenda" - perhaps, just ahead of it's time. As for public libraries that choose not to filter their computers: they are disqualified from participating in the federal e-rate program and from applying for federally funded grants. Therefore, a library that chooses not to filter content does so at the loss of sometimes very important funding dollars, but not at the expense of the patrons intellectual freedom.
Librarians are trained professionals with Masters degrees or higher. It is not in any public library's collection policy to provide materials that violate community standards or local/state statutes - which "The Joy of Gay Sex" clearly does not. So for those sarcastic folks who say or think what next are they going to get a subscription to Playboy. Perhaps you should have a little more faith in your public library and realize that it exists to represent your community as a whole, not just the ones you think deserve to be represented. "
Librarians are trained professionals with Masters degrees or higher. It is not in any public library's collection policy to provide materials that violate community standards or local/state statutes - which "The Joy of Gay Sex" clearly does not. So for those sarcastic folks who say or think what next are they going to get a subscription to Playboy. Perhaps you should have a little more faith in your public library and realize that it exists to represent your community as a whole, not just the ones you think deserve to be represented. "
Shonkin wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:50 PM:
" This book should be kept from children for the same reason that X-rated and NC17-rated movies are kept from children. Carol Byrnes and her cohort are very irresponsible. "
ematt wrote on Oct 22, 2008 1:06 PM:
" dietz-
So is it ok then if a prayer from the Koran is recited in the classroom?
kensmail-
I'm not sure if anyone has specifically posted that Cohen does not have a right to speak his mind. But he does not have the right to oppress the opinion of others. "
So is it ok then if a prayer from the Koran is recited in the classroom?
kensmail-
I'm not sure if anyone has specifically posted that Cohen does not have a right to speak his mind. But he does not have the right to oppress the opinion of others. "
dietz1963 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 12:45 PM:
" To j67596:
You commented on Mr. Paul Cohen for his spine to speak up and to let his common sense be known. I have to tell you, after doing some google reading on this Mr. Cohen to include his dealings/interaction with a Victor Hafichuk, I wonder about common sense and now wonder was his concern genuine or did he have his own agenda? He, as does this Mr. Hafichuk, seem to have some radicle views. "
You commented on Mr. Paul Cohen for his spine to speak up and to let his common sense be known. I have to tell you, after doing some google reading on this Mr. Cohen to include his dealings/interaction with a Victor Hafichuk, I wonder about common sense and now wonder was his concern genuine or did he have his own agenda? He, as does this Mr. Hafichuk, seem to have some radicle views. "
dietz1963 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:57 AM:
" This is a problem I continually see, individuals who take no responsibility for their or their childrens actions, what they see, do learn ect...instead, blame institutions. And if there is one thing I learned, if we do not take responsibility for our own actions...or for our childrens, who does? Big brother? And if Big brother does, then it always tends to maximize safety for "our" benefit. Which pretty much means, little or no freedom. I have seen it happen, probably the biggest one I have seen is....prayer in school. Because it is considered "offensive" to a given few, instead of finding a happy medium...now that practice is banned in many schools.
In the time I served, I saw many countries who ban all kinds of things in the interest of "the good of the people". I do not think we need more boundries, but we probably do need to be more responsible with our own lives and the lives of our children. If we do not, and we need "big brother" to control it, we will no longer have freedom. "
In the time I served, I saw many countries who ban all kinds of things in the interest of "the good of the people". I do not think we need more boundries, but we probably do need to be more responsible with our own lives and the lives of our children. If we do not, and we need "big brother" to control it, we will no longer have freedom. "
Jaymie wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:56 AM:
" I applaud the library for keeping censorship out of our free and public library. I am concerned for our country when fools take the stance that upholding our great Constitution is a leftist position. I wouldn't be surprised that those same fools also support wire tapping and unconditional power for our Commander and Chief; probably the same fools that voted for Bush and wave McCain banners as well. I love our country and I love what our country stands for - freedom of thought and expression among other great ideals. I rejoice that lazy parents and homo-phobes weren't able to ban a book from our library. As for the pornography, ever read the Bible? That's full of graphic stories full of rape, adultery, and sex. I suppose the same fools who want to ban books would also love the Bible to be a text book in our schools. That's what I find absurd! "
coralunacy1 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:13 AM:
" Colton: Are you comparing homosexuality to pedophilia? Are you insane? "
coralunacy1 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 11:10 AM:
" Congratulations to the library on doing the right thing! Yay! Another loss for those irritating people trying to invoke their beliefs and so-called morals into the lives of others. Live and let live. If you don't like the book, don't check it out. "
ematt wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:41 AM:
" crush (et. al.)-
the library carries "midnight cowboy" when originally released was rated X. For you information, the MPAA rates movies, not public libraries. The only things I think that should be "sensored" are comments posted on the ir...
Colton-
the library does carry a book on pedophiles, "Lolita". "
the library carries "midnight cowboy" when originally released was rated X. For you information, the MPAA rates movies, not public libraries. The only things I think that should be "sensored" are comments posted on the ir...
Colton-
the library does carry a book on pedophiles, "Lolita". "
diazo wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:20 AM:
" Score one for intellectual freedom in Helena. Colton, that "left wing political agenda" is also the reason patently offensive material such as the works of Anne Coulter are on the library's shelves as well. We liberals are honest enough to admit freedom works both ways.
I wonder how many of the pro-censorship crowd ever voted for a library bond in the first place. Don't worry, j67596, I'll vote yes twice on the next library bond, 'cause we Democrats can apparently do that, I hear. "
I wonder how many of the pro-censorship crowd ever voted for a library bond in the first place. Don't worry, j67596, I'll vote yes twice on the next library bond, 'cause we Democrats can apparently do that, I hear. "
kensmail2001 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 10:18 AM:
" So everyone is entitled to free speech, but you object to Mr Cohen from exercising his? Where is the logic in that? "
j67596 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:53 AM:
" From this point forward, I will not be voting for any levies to increase this kind of behavior with the library. Maybe I should take my efforts and go buy nasty filthy xxxx rated material so I can donate to the library for their 18 and over section. And as for you Mr. thedukeofhelena you can look at whatever you desire, however, you can go to the adult shops and entertain yourself with your ideas. Mr. Cohen had enough spine to speak up and let his common sense be known. Like I said before, freedom of speech is good for all, although there needs to be boundaries and common sense decisions for all that includes YOU! "
thedukeofhelena wrote on Oct 22, 2008 9:35 AM:
" What is absurd Mr Cohen is people like you telling the rest of us what is right and what is wrong. "
crush720 wrote on Oct 22, 2008 8:30 AM:
" Honestly? Well, then I suppose the library should have suscriptions to Playboy and Playgirl as well.
Have some sort of common sense, people, this is not an issue about sexuality, it's an issue of the level of appropriate material in a public domain.
At the very least, this sort of material should not be on the shelves but only available to borrow by asking the staff and with an ID proving a person is 18 or older.
Is it sensorship to rate movies PG-13 or R or above? If not, then certainally, it is at least appropriate to have a rating system so that sexually graphic books are rated for only those of an appropriate age. "
Have some sort of common sense, people, this is not an issue about sexuality, it's an issue of the level of appropriate material in a public domain.
At the very least, this sort of material should not be on the shelves but only available to borrow by asking the staff and with an ID proving a person is 18 or older.
Is it sensorship to rate movies PG-13 or R or above? If not, then certainally, it is at least appropriate to have a rating system so that sexually graphic books are rated for only those of an appropriate age. "
Colton wrote on Oct 22, 2008 7:27 AM:
" This decision by the library and Ms. Hart is not surprising. The American Library Association has a very left wing political agenda, and all in the name of 1st Amendment rights. Why does the library allow unrestricted access to pornography without Internet filters on their computers? This anything goes attitude is in direct violation of federal policy.
What book(s) will be on the shelves next? I suppose the library wants how to books for pedophiles on our library bookshelves. Tolerance is the new buzz word with which to embrace depravity. "
What book(s) will be on the shelves next? I suppose the library wants how to books for pedophiles on our library bookshelves. Tolerance is the new buzz word with which to embrace depravity. "
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rzncane wrote on Nov 3, 2008 11:19 AM: