" FISHING...
I will never forget 9/11, but I also will never forget that Bush/McCain and the other croonies sent our brave soldiers to Iraq, not Afghanistan where the Taliban was. They had the opportunity to do the right thing, but they did not. They lied and deceived all Americans! If the reason we went to war was because of 9/11 then why the heck are our military members in Iraq? "

" skooter
No mud slinging from this corner. How can one trust a person who denies his associations with questionable characters. You can disagree with McCain, His stance on policy is clear. Do we want an America where incentive and improving ones self is not rewarded?
I have never said ACORN will steal the election. But you can not deny that Obama has close ties to ACORN. They are continuosly engaging in criminal activity. Will the shift to ultra liberal government be good for this country? will Ayers, Wright, Kahlidi and Rezko be the driving force behind an Obama presidency? Time will tell. Will liberal democrats hatred for republicans allow our country to become more devisive?
My fears of Obama are based on facts I read not on some nebulous poll which I find of no value in forming my own opinions! "

" woooo hooo..fishing thanks for dropping the all caps!!!! I can "hear" you much better now. "

" Patriot - you and I can agree on one thing (and rinnie too) there is a lack of civility in politics lately.

But you have slung a lot of mud in this forum over the past months yourself...lots of labels applied liberally, lots of democrats are unpatriotic kinda 'stuff'...and those are the kind of comments you and I have always disagreed over. I disagree with McCain policy-wise and on the questionable choices he has made and continues to make at times. But I have never questioned his patriotism, his service to this country or his overall character. In fact, I have said that he seems to be deviating from that character that I (and many) once highly regarded. But at times you, and moreso many of your fellow supporters, are the first to call names at the drop of a hat: terrorist, socialist, and many worse. It's taking the easy way out - rather than looking at the position, the person, or why the difference exists - a label will suffice.

Here's where I think you take the easy way out on ACORN - you accept the 'ACORN is going steal the election argument' rather than looking at why the election is swinging the way it is.

ACORN isn't doing the polling that shows that a majority of people that believe John McCain will not make our collective lives better, that Palin is NOT a strong candidate, that McCain's policies will not be much different than Bush's and will help the Rich more so than the middle class, that show that American's don't like or tend to believe McCain's negative attacks and robo-calls, that American's are getting fed up with the US vs Them tone of the McCain campaign...and it crosses party/political, economic and racial lines.

Keep in mind, that these weren't polls taking just in NEW YORK CITY or other 'non-patriotic' parts of America - these are your neighbors and maybe a few of your friends who are tired of the way things have been done and are seeking a change.

I believe in America and the promise she holds for ALL its people. I don't know what standing by the decision means since you can't do a thing about it anyway other than not to elect him again (Bush was a good example)...but I do believe that when the country elects a president we owe it to ourselves to approach his term with an open mind. "

" BIG P, I am accually a women and yes, I do go fishing all of the time. what I am saying is that it would be nice to have a president that has great values and concern for this country, and has faught for his country and lived it. I totally love larry the cable guy he is pretty funny. I just get a little nervous when obama has all of these good things to say and probably not going to stick with it?? I pretty much vote for ever is pro life anyways. "

" I am just amazed that the Dem's keep trying to paint McCain as the devil incarnate, while Obama is this perfect, faultless "savior". You all seem to agree that FactCheckdotOrg is a valid reference site, so read this about Obama's "most recent" lying ad about McCain and his health proposals:
"The ad quotes the Wall Street Journal as saying McCain would pay for his health care plan with "major reductions to Medicare and Medicaid," which the ad says would total $882 billion from Medicare alone, "requiring cuts in benefits, eligibility, or both."...
Obama elaborated on the theme Oct. 18 in a stump speech in St. Louis, Mo., claiming flatly that seniors would face major medical hardships under McCain:
The fact is that McCain has never proposed to cut Medicare benefits, or Medicaid benefits either. Obama's claim is based on a false reading of a single Wall Street Journal story, amplified by a one-sided, partisan analysis that piles speculation atop misinterpretation. Typical Dem attempt to scare seniors with lies. YourBad had it right in another blog:

YourBad wrote on Oct 23, 2008 1:37 PM:
" Oh sure, the Obama campaign is so much more above board with his lies that he supports gunowners' rights or the lie now running on the airwaves about how McCain is going to cut soc security benefits. FactCheckdotorg has declared that to be an outright lie. Then there's the lie about only going to tax the rich, while Pelosi and Franks are both calling for immediate and immense spending increases with a big hit to the rich and tax increases down the road. This in addition to the extra 51 billion he wants to give to Darfur thru the UN and all the other spending programs he's mentioned. Where does everybody think that money is coming from if not from the middle class, etc. You can take every penny the over $250K crowd owns, and it won't even come close to what BO and the other Dem's have in mind for spending, on top of the $700B they just got. At least McCain and Palin are talking about getting rid of pork and rooting out corruption. The Dem's don't talk about that at all. The conclusion is that they have no interest in cutting spending or getting rid of the corruption in DC.I guess it doesn't even rate lying about it with them. " "

" Patriot...you always want to hold Obama to task for what he says...I believe I asked you a question....once again... which facts specifically did I mix up, just out of curiosity? " To answer your question...We will have to stand behind McCain if he wins, he better make some serious changes in policy, because in all seriousness we CANNOT afford (literally) 4 more years of Bush policies. "

" skooter,
John McCain's address to ACORN in 2006 is but one event, his association is clear Obama's support and intentions are not clear. As you say, your comment was anecdotal which translates as subjective, sketchy and unreliable at best. Your statement about Buffets secretary was very misleading. The person who wrote "Please vote Obama" will assume it is fact. Kind of like you assume I probabbly only watch FOX news and listen to Rush Limbaugh. Quite the contrary, I do not like either and never listen to Limbaugh, I put him in the same category as Alex Baldwin, Streisand and Madonna. They are entertainers and not all that great. They will not go down in history as great for anything. Rinnie has made a good observation, civility is absent from this election, personal attacks from all sides. Kind of like kids on a playground, resemblance to proper decorum does not exist.
If Obama is elected I will stand by the decision of the American people, they will have spoken. However I do fear ACORN's influence and voter fraud, they are currently under investigation in more than 10 states for illegal activities.
Regardless of Obama's claim that although he attended Jeremiah Wrights church for twenty years, his preaching has no influence on him today (really?)
The other cast of characters, Ayers, Kahlidi,Rezko,Farakhan, make me nervous as well. You and I have chosen our presidential pick, can you stand behind McCain if he wins? "

" Fishing, do you dress like Larry the cable guy? Not that I don't like Larry the cable guy, he is a kick, but you are about as big a redneck as he is, only he is smart enough to cash in on his redneckness. Let me see, McCain was a pilot during Viet Nam, caught captured, lived for 5 years in a POW camp, THAT qualifies him to lead the United States? Am I hearing you right? Not that I do not respect and owe the man a great deal for his military time, I just don't think that being a pilot and POW makes him the best candidate for Pres. It would be his economic and Iraq policy that would be up for scrutiny and I am not buying his Bush carry over. Fishing, maybe you need to just do that, go fishing. "

" Know what *I* think is twisted? The fact that the media & the Dems are so up in arms over the cost of Palin's wardrobe -- like Obama or Foot-In-The-Mouth Biden are wearing suits from Sears?! And that all the supposed women's rights folks are so quick to criticize how she can be a "good mother" when she's so obviously ambitious -- when did anyone ever ask that of a male candidate?

Yes, Sarah has had some verbal blunders... but not to be outdone, Biden has been verbally blundering for ages (and will continue to embarrass himself if, God forbid, he gets to the White House).

The important thing is the one who is elected President... Obama is, in my opinion, a slick used-car salesman. He speaks more eloquently than McCain, but McCain is the man with the moxie to get the job done with honors. I could care less who looks smoother on tv or in sound bites -- I want someone with his feet firmly planted on the ground, not with his head in the clouds spouting lofty unattainable ideals.

Do me one favor, Obama-ites... if your man does happen to land in the oval office, keep tabs on how many of his "plans" are actually put in place, and the consequences of those few. "

" Patriot - just because you go to factcheck.org and disagree with the conclusion doesn't mean its still not a fact. Every fact you can't agree with is suddenly is mixed up.

If Obama's association with ACORN (again tenuous at best and not the firestorm the desperate right makes it) is so important then please explain MCCAIN'S ASSOCIATION WITH ACORN (he was Keynote Speaker at their big 2006 event and has worked with them in past)?

I'll generally put my facts up against yours any day - I got mine from the IRS web site. And the buffet quote was his not mine, I offered (and explained) it as anecdotal evidence of the widening gap - not fact. "

" Patriot...which facts specifically did I mix up, just out of curiosity? "

" Patriot:
May I suggest to you that Fox news isn't the "only" source of info. out there. Give snopes a try.

It is so sad to see all the divisiveness of this once proud country. Maybe we should all.......take a deep breath and learn to be a little more tolerant of each others beliefs. I will try myself.

United we stand.......... "

" OBAMA WILL SAY ALL THE GOOD STUFF SO YOU WILL VOTE FOR HIM.......BE CAREFUL HE HAS SOMETING UP HIS SLEEVE!!!!!! MCCAIN IS SO AWESOME FOR FIGHTING FOR OUR COUNTRY AND HE KNOWS WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.........BUSH WALKED INTO A MESS THAT CLINTON STARTED SO DON'T FORGET THAT.......ALSO DON'T FORGET ABOUT 9/11 PEOPLE!!!!!!! WE HAD TO GO AND FIGHT BACK!!! DO YOU WANT THEM TERRIOSTS HERE??????????????? NOT!! SO LETS HAVE A BRAVE SOLDIER RUN THIS COUNTRY NOT A WANNA BE!!! "

" I believe Sarah Palin is the most like GWB!She just wears a skirt and lipstick.
Her inexperience.Her shallow knowledge of many basic global histories and politics.She has such a big ego and ambition that she would not know how to even get a group of smart individuals to help her with her quick study; unless it's her way.I don't know when things got so twisted that she's considered the "family values"candidate as she now faces over 6 ethic violations here now.As for her popularity it's tanking as I write with the price of oil dropping she won't be able to "pay the folks"with wind fall profits tax. "

" for skooter and gun, etc.
Again you have your facts mixed up. If Buffets secretary paid 30% of her 60K salary in federal income tax she hasn't learned much from her boss and if he cared he would have pointed out this injustice to her. Under the IRS federal tax code she would have to pay 18.9% on an adjusted income of 60K assuming she took zero deductions even for herself. So if Warren Buffet is so magnamimous why does't he pay more to show his patriotism to the country which has allowed him to earn so much.
As usual you speak in generalalities, still no facts, I do go to factcheck.org and many of the issues you quote can be left up to an individuals interpretation.
It seems as though whatever you heard on MSNBC or CNN last night you quote the next day as your revelation and insight into the future.
Whether or not you believe in the Iraq/Afganistan war effort is something you have no control over, the money will be spent regardless of who the next president may be next year. Obama has progressed from immediate withdrawal of troops to a 16 month timetable. What do you think will happen when he draws down the military and begins to show military weakness to our enemies? Will he react the same as Clinton or be more passive in his approach to foreign policy. Both the democrats and republicans are complicit in our economic problems today, Obama may blame the republicans as he is doing. What role has he played since being in office to better our economy? You question the validity of arguments about Ayers, Rezko,Wright and Kahlidi all who have been influential in Obama's life. It's your choice to beleive him when he denies they have had an impact on his thinking.
Obama's association with ACORN is another travesty being financed by all of us who pay taxes.
I do my own homework, my facts are correct, you just don't take time to verify if you disagree. I do not whine about my station in life and I am not even close to skooters top 20%, I am satisfied, live within my means, provide for a family, and beleive in an honest days work for an honest days pay. Which I am sure even you believe is just. "

" Our society has turned upside down in the last 8 years, even the working poor think it is okay to continue to give tax breaks to the ultra rich. We are becoming brainwashed. Tax breaks to the rich is good conservative policy, tax breaks to the middle class or working poor is socialism. The sad thing is that there are so many missinformed (and I hate this statement) rednecks out there that believe that if you give a middle class or working poor family a break, it is some sort of welfare. When was it wrong to give the guy making less then $50,000 a tax break? When did that happen? "

" Patriot - you denigrate this writer because he actually checks facts at a neutral site and you spout supposed facts that seem nebulous at best. I have seen many income to burden ratios - but most show that the top 20% (which is about the 190K level) actually paid closer to 65%. And there are mitigating factors as well - too many to argue in this small forum and in as encapsulated a format.

But here's a little anecdotal evidence from Warren Buffet, widely lauded for his business acumen and knowledge (especially lately):

"Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser...Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion, said: The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do...If youre in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.

Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience...that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation."' "

" Patriot...so doing our homework on factcheck.org isn't really doing our homework?? I am confused? We all know you don't do much if any homework...where do you get your facts?? Hasn't Obama said over and over and over again he plans to cut as much as or more than what he plans on in new spending? There is certainly room for some major cuts....like 10-12 Billion dollars a month for an unnecessary, ill managed war? How is that...won't 144 Billion dollars per year be enough to pay for his new plans???? UHHHHHH! Here is some facts for you Patriot

The richest 400 Americans -- that's right, just four hundred people -- own MORE than the bottom 150 million Americans combined. 400 rich Americans have got more stashed away than half the entire country! Their combined net worth is $1.6 trillion. During the eight years of the Bush Administration, their wealth has increased by nearly $700 billion!!
Are you disputing this Patriot? "

" I think an interesting tidbit is that McCain has hired the robo-calling firm FLS Connect, run by Repub/Rove operative Jeff Larson, to try and paint the Ayers slime across the nation by phone. Some may remember, this is the same firm that Bush used against him in 2000 (one of the lies had to do with McCain supposedly having an illegitimate African American child). The mcmaverick learned a lesson I guess, slime worked against him then, so he should abandon his principals and use it now. "

" Milton,
Add your name to the list of people who can't do their own research but leave it to factcheck.org. Whether or not it is a non-partisan group is not relevant. Try reading/research and doing your homework to make an informed decision. Your facts are skewed in the direction you want them to be, one can make the case go either way depending on your interpretetation. How do you suppose Obama will be able to pay for all his additional entitlement programs? Granted the top 5% of wage earners pay greater than 75% income taxes collected and he will raise the rate they pay while lowering if not eliminate tax on those who make less, will that tax increase be adequate? Other taxes will have to increase, impacting those who can least afford it. Increases in corporate taxes will be passed on to the consumer, higher tariffs on imports will adversely impact international trade. The list will grow, maybe he will institute a national real estate tax based on value and how much land you own. Maybe he will redistribute land holdings to those who have none. Let's spread the wealth! Great idea? "