" Some of you have way too much time on your hands! "

" -obsethed,
How are you trying to "shut up"? If you were implying to me that your comments in any shape or form has caused me to not make a comment then you are mistaken. Your rebuttal to the situation is childish and makes no sense. "I am a veteran and a liberal, what now?". If you need us to tell you how to lead your life then you clearly have conflict with where you currently stand. Thank you for serving this country. You deserve to be called a "veteran". If anything, I thought you would appreciate the fact that all these individuals are defending your right to be recognized for your service. I am not a veteran, but have several loved ones whom are. I can not say thank you enough for their sacrifices so I can enjoy the freedoms of being an American. I will always stand up to those that criticize our military and veterans. Those "draft dodgers" should not enjoy the freedoms of this country and should have never been allowed to return. It was ole Jimmy Carter that allowed this to take place. He was a great president (sarcasm please). He allows these draft dodgers to return to our great country with no consequence (abandoning this nation in its time of need) and then giving away the panama canal. That is the type of person I don't like. I could care less if they are liberal or conservative. Actions speak louder than words. "

" naturalblonde196...
You have proven that you do not have to be a soldier to understand one. We forget that sometimes as we see so few who can put themselves in our shoes without actually having been there as you seem to be able to do. I appriciate your note.

Your brother and I are from different times but clearly from the same military. Thank him for his service.
AIRBORNE! "

" I'm a liberal, I protest this war, and I've never served one second in the military. So I guess by naturalblonde's definition, I'm a coward. What if I was to tell you that once I graduated from college, I called up each branch of the service and needless to say they were foaming at the mouth to get me to sign up. That was until I told them of a physical condition that I have had since I was born. It's not debilitating in any way, but once that was in the open, I might as well have had the plague.

I hold nothing but respect for the military. But making a blanket statement that those who don't serve are cowards just shows your ignorance. It's not always a matter of choice. "

" Personally, I have the belief that like the Chief of Staff at a hospital should be a doctor then also the leader of the finest military on the planet should have some military experience. How can you truly understand what is needed if you haven't been there? As to what constitutes a Veteran.........Actually this was never an issue until the Vietnam War because that was really the first time that America was truly divided with regards to military action. My brother was in Vietnam and I asked him this question. He said that in his opinion if you were in the military there or here helping in any capacity to keep our country and our people free regardless if you carried a gun you are a Veteran. If you held back in safety and let other people fight for your freedom then you are a coward whether you wore a uniform or not. He had many stories to tell about men that called themselves Observers but were right in the thick of battle helping to take care of wounded and dying. Did the men think these guys were crazy not to carry a gun? Of course! Did they know 5 seconds after being with these guys that they were anything but cowards? Definitely! My brother considers these great people Veterans. As to all the people that protested and condemned the war while enjoying the right to do so from the comfort of their nice warm home he says Shame On You. Move to Cuba! "

" That shut you up didn't it!! "

" Are you implying I don't support my fellow veteran's or my country? It's really conservative people who piss me off! "

" d-
I'm a veteran, I'm a liberal! What now? "

" To my fellow bloggers;

I can give you a different perspective on this war thing with regard to the administration, things you probably don't know or understand. As stated earlier to alan_rainey, my name is Steven and my phone number is 465-9753. Give me a call. "

" I completely agree with many of the letters in this thread and find many other letters to be irrational. It isn't a difficult concept to understand. If a person serves his or her country in any way or form (soldier/medic) then that person is a veteran. Those who opposed the wars for various reasons and did not go to defend the freedoms we are expressing at this moment can not receive the kudos for earning those freedoms along side the veterans that spilled their blood for our benefit.
The second point I would like to address is the idea that some feel Obama is going to come in a clean this "mess" up in Iraq like it will be an easy task. The reason why we are not out of Iraq is because work has not been completed. If we pull out today, all the work we have done will be for not because the opposition will rise up and squash allied forces in Iraq. They will not stop their either. They will bring it to US soil again! I can't believe someone could have the ignorance to say we went overseas for nothing and that Bush was wrong! Rewind your life back to 9/11. Remember the emotions that were flowing on that day. Remember that the nation as a whole called out for someone to rise up and stand up to these types of individuals. It is easy to say that it was a mistake when the press only tells you the negative or when a political candidate uses the negatives to slander the candidate he is running against. Find a vet from this war and ask him/her what good is happening in Iraq. He/she will tell you things the press will not. He/she will give you an accurate account of why we are there. He/she will say that it is a good thing we are over there. For those people that are so quick to jump to the opposition and oppose the war and ridicule our vets and commanders. If you enjoy the rewards of their sweat, blood, and tears, then you better learn to appreciate them and allow them to do their work. If you are against the war and against our democracy.......leave. We do not need you or want you here. Our veterans and soldiers need your support. They need to know that if they lay down their life for your freedom that you will not squander it. We take our liberties for granted. We do not acknowledge that if our Armed forces would not have rose up and fought back on 9/11 that day would have marked the beginning of the war, not in iraq, but on our soil. Thank you President Bush and all our elected officials and armed service men and women for making the decision to defend us and those in Iraq that could not defend themselves. Those of you that haven't joined in supporting our troops and elected officials need to get on the wagon because you're 7 years late, or get out of the country to learn and realize how good you had it! That is why these objectors are back in the US. They realize that this is a great country. A great country that was made great from the sacrifices of our service men and women! "

" wow - a very contentious debate for obvious reasons.

Nothing to add different - but I wanted to say to MTRich that I thought his comment was very well put and points out that there can be SOME conscientious objectors (for religious or other reasons) who didn't drive to Canada, but served their country and fellow soldiers as (I do believe unarmed) medics.

Thank MTRICH - and thanks to all of the soldiers & vets weighing in for their service to our great country. "

" First let me say that I am NOT a soldier and have not had to leave my family and go off to war, BUT I have ultimate respect for those who are and who have. I have many family members and friends who have/are. My confusion on this blog is why some can not understand that most if not all of us have this admiration and respect for our soldiers. I don't know anyone who disrespects the actual soldiers....it is the ADMINISTRATION who sent our soldiers into this fiasco of a war that we are ANGRY with. The soldiers are bravely doing their job as they are instructed. W and his cronies sit in their fancy offices and make life changing decisions for these soldiers without the blink of an eye. George W has never come out publicly and said he made mistakes and apologized. I am not expecting him to come out to the world and admit he was flat out wrong as I do think that would hurt our world standing worse than his actions have, if that is possible. I know that we have not been attacked on our soil since 9/11 but we have suffered a staggering amount of lost American lives in the past 5 years not to mention the affects this war will have on hundreds of thousands of American soldiers, their families and Iraqi citizens. So does it really make it that much better that as long as it wasn't on American soil?? Our world standing and reputation is at an all time low, people around the world laugh at us and have lost all respect for us. We have fanned the fires of fury in most every young Muslim male extremist with the war in Iraq so I don't know that we will ever be safe again. I just wonder, with 10-12 Billion dollars per month for 5 years what we could have done to our intelligance system to protect us, what we could have done diplomatically to protect our country and its citizens. Would our economy be in the turmoil it is in if we had not wasted so much money on this war? If we wanted to kill Sadaam I would guess that we didn't need to invade his country to do so?? But like I said I am no military expert?? I respect the soldiers just not the administration that sent them there. "

" The first "poser" Al, has no respect for veterans or his country as most liberals don't. Higher Authority Al? Yeah right, like you believe in God. You believe in the all mighty BS and the Chosen one. You are sick.

Thank You Mr. Urban for your service. And I agree with your letter. "

" People, the items you are so exhuberant about have little to do with the point I was making. My point is, that a coward from the Vietnam Era has no right to add his name to a roll of honor for VETERANS. It was, purely and simply, a political statement. Perhaps some of you are not old enough to remember Vietnam. Keep this in mind when you think about my position:

My father-in-law was drafted in 1967. His wife had passed away from a kidney disease the year before, and he had 4 children to take care of. Now, yeah, he could have gotten a deferment based upon his situation, but he chose to serve when his nation called. PFC Walter Handy gave his life near Pleiku in March 1968.

When I see people like the good "Doctor" placing his name on a VETERANS honors page, it chaps my hide in a big way. There have been lots of conscientious objectors in all the wars; thousands of them actually served in the military in non-combat rolls. One, a Quaker medic in World War II, won the Congressional Medal of Honor. He served on the front line without a weapon. Service does not mean you necessarily have to kill anyone.

I'll fight to the death for anyone to express their opinion. Some Conscientious Objectors, such as Mohammed Ali, suffered major consequences for their views. All I am saying is that if you choose to take that course, then please do NOT expect to join in receiving accolades in the same manner as people who EARNED those accolades. "

" Years ago a co-worker told me he was concerned I would no longer like him because he had been a conscientious objector during Viet Nam. He knew I am a Vet as are both of my parents. He knew I had no use for those cowards we worked with who had run to hide in Canada rather than serve their country. When I heard his story I had even more respect for him than some of my other fellow solders. He did not believe in killing but wanted to serve his country. So he joined the Army as a medic. He serve his country in Viet Nam. He served his fellow Americans. He served his beliefs. He it turned out, is a fellow VETERAN. That is a far cry from those who use a sudden and convenient bout of conscious as an excuse for cowardice. You can tell the difference between conscious and cowardice easily. Those with conscious will find a way to serve their country and fellow Americans. Cowards just make excuses as to why they cannot. "

" Too many of you are distorting Mr. Urban's letter and using it for a personal soap box! He is perfectly correct that only veterans should be showcased on a veteran ad! "

" I am a veteran of OIF and I am really disturbed by the comments and banter made by here.

A member of the military service understands that it is his duty to stand up for his country.

I can't believe that anyone would have such a harsh opinion against his country and call their president the worst commander in cheif ever... I live in a safe secure America.

I am insulted by your comments about "men of principle," but I will leave you with a quote:

"I may disagree with what you say,But I will fight to the death for your right to say it"

That's the way America should be. Please try to learn to respect your country and your government! "

" alan_rainey as a current member of the military I find your comment: "completing a nonsense mission" hurtful. I respect your opinion of the US President and you and I agree that we never should have invaded. However, what many people don't realize is that when people insult the mission we are trying to complete it hurts us.

Would you tell a teacher that public education is a joke? No, you wouldnt. By calling our job (that we bleed, sweat, cry and suffer for) "nonsense" you are in fact saying all we have done was worthless and stupid. While I am glad you can voice your opinion perhaps in the future you could exercise more tact. Maybe say, "the mission was not worth the cost we have paid" or "you don't want more soldier to die under inept leadership" something like that. I'm sure like me you take pride in your work it is an extension of who you are. You wouldn't want someone to disparage your occupation because it would hurt you. Now multiply that feeling by a hundred, that is how we feel. "

" Mr Urban thank you for your service and I can understand you being upset. However you know it has been a long standing tradition that the few fight for the many. What al and alan are doing is somewhat like waving the American flag for if it was not for us (currently serving my country not the machine) they would be pulled into the streets and killed for their statements. Alan you thanked God we will soon have a president who will do the right thing. Yes Iraq did not have WMD's but it did have a dictator who committed numerous human atrosities so with him gone that is a good thing and that country is healing. I don't think God cares if you are American or not we are helping his children live better lives. Afghanistan almost no one wants us out of including Obama. That war is just and appropriate. There is a quote that I live by along side my fellow vets both past and present that states "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." "

" a President that will address this fiasco the way it should have been done five years ago?

Who did the vets vote for? Overwhelmingly for McCain.

By the way thanks to all veterans for allowing us the freedom of speech. "

" I have to admire your moral courage although I am biased toward your objection. Moral courage manifests itself in many ways - in those who face death and in those who chose not to participate in taking human life. However, if one joins a military service, know you are doing your fellow servicemen a grave dis-service by not standing along side them when the chips are down! After all, one who joins the military not expecting and not accepting to go into harm's way should not have joined at all. "

" alan_rainey,

I am sorry you have been misled. I know first hand that those for something will lean that direction, those against will go that direction. Now, if you would like to hear the WHOLE story on the current war, I would be more then happy to discuss it. Give you a "military perspective". I can be reached @ 465-9753, name is Steven.

Oh and concerning our pending pres...don't be fooled. He has stated to make the situation in Dafur "top priority". To do that, part of the agenda is: Ensure the full and effective deployment of a military force that actively protects Darfuri civilians and seek justice for the people of Darfur and hold the perpetrators of the genocide to account. What do you think that means? "

" Wow Buck, some people have some interesting thoughts on what a veteran is and what a conscientious object is. Personally if you are unwilling to fight for the freedom we so enjoy in America, then maybe you need to live in a country that doesn't need to protect freedom. It is way to easy to say "I can't kill another human being" and stay home and send off your neighbor to fight for you and protect you while you bask in the freedoms we enjoy here. I have found that the conscienious objector is usally the first to whine about some right or freedom being taken away. Freedom is free and it isn't for SOMEONE else to protect for you. Find that country that doesn't need to protect freedom. I hate this war and hate the ideas for it's existance, but we need a fighting force and thank God for those that serve and believe me, I would stand next to a soldier any day, not just Veterans Day. "

" To conscience objectors:

Object, as it your right. I might suggest a better time and place, not on a day that honors those that serve. Plenty of other times for your opinions. But I would ask that you do not fool yourselves into believing that we simply just go to war. In my experience, every possible diplomatic solution is used. I know this, because I served a real long time. Concerning the Iraq war, I tried to bring some perspective in a letter to the editor, unfortunately it was too long in words to be submitted.

Folks, regarding any war...I cannot say there is an absolute definitive right or wrong reasons for war, but can see there is a lot of information the public does not get for as to what eventually draws us into one. No one I have known in the military really wants to go to war because the absolutes are people are going to kill and people are going to die. People not directly in the fight are going to suffer, one way or another. And the cost will always be high, both in money and in blood. Freedom is not free.

Unfortunately for us, there are going to continue to be wars. These realities are why we have military. I am sure many of the people I have served with and those that continue to serve would agree, know and understand the job.

I have seen governments arrest or kill their own citizens for expressing their opinions. So be against war, just keep this FACT in mind.

It was my honor and priviledge to serve 24 years so that people (right or wrong) can express their opinions. Think of the alternative. "

" And I am also highly embarrassed by folks that lack the ability to both disagree, and more importantly, to repect another's opionion for what it is.

And yet here they are, brave men and women, fighting and dying for a blundering commander who made all the wrong decisions in putting them there, and blindlessly bent on completing a nonsense mission. Now that's truly is sad.

And thank God we will soon have a President that will address this fiasco the way it should have been done five years ago; something the current failure of a chief lacked the ability, courage, and intelligence to do. "

" Mr. Urban. Thanks so much for your service! And thanks to all our service men and women. I would much rather stand proudly next to you and all who have served proudly for our great nation than have to stand next to people like alan_rainey or al. I am highly embarrassed that these two Americans are so disrespectful. Truly makes me sad. "

" I object to your objection on the objector. It's always nice to see a dissenting O-P-I-N-I-O-N. It's was an objection about the W-A-R in general and the worst C-O-M-M-A-N-D-E-R in chief in the American H-I-S-T-O-R-Y. "

" Mr. Urban, conscientious objectors are not cowards. They are men of principle, who choose to not kill other men simply because the federal government tells them they must. When was the last time you stood up to the Washington machine, Mr. Urban, and obeyed a higher, better authority? "