Helena voters may have two opportunities to opine on the four-year war in Iraq this November.

A Helena couple on Wednesday gave city officials a proposed referendum calling for U.S. troops to be given the money and manpower they need to achieve victory.

"The danger is too great to do otherwise," John and Cyndi Forbes wrote in the proposed referendum.

City commissioners already are considering a referendum submitted by Helenans Support for Troops and Military Withdrawal, calling for the immediate, orderly and safe removal of troops from the country, where sectarian violence claims scores of Iraqi and American lives every week.

Supporters of that referendum called the war a debacle and said it's long been lost.

The withdrawal measure is on the agenda for Monday's 6 p.m. meeting, when commissioners will decide whether to add it to the Nov. 6 ballot. City officials will consider the Forbes' referendum at a later meeting.

At an administrative meeting Wednesday night, John Forbes and several others on both sides of the issue said they're not opposed to having both measures on the ballot.

"Let us vote on it," Marine Corps veteran Chip Clawson said.

John Mundinger, an Army veteran and spokesman for Helenans Support for Troops and Military Withdrawal, stopped short of supporting the Forbes' referendum. After the meeting, he said he'd consider supporting the measure if he knew what they meant by "victory" and how they expect the military to achieve it.

In a later interview, John Forbes said his definition is the same as President Bush's: a stable Iraq, free from terrorism and criminal activity.

"And the president of the United States, being the commander in chief, is the one that sets the parameters, I think, not the City Commission or (U.S. Sen.) Jon Tester or anyone else," he said.

Forbes said he will work with city officials if needed to clarify the referendum language before it goes to the commission for a vote.

Amy Orser, whose son and daughter-in-law recently returned from Army duty in Iraq, said she doesn't believe the two referendums belong on the ballot.

"We voted for these things when we voted for our elected officials," Orser said. "The only thing that these referendums do is perpetuate the division that we already have in our city.

"To me, it's a complete waste of time," she added.

Larry Kline can be reached at 447-4075 or larry.kline@helenair.com.